Client not engaging

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By Aly    Reply to this Topic  |  New Topic

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Aly
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Date Oct 14th, 2011 02:30 Client not engaging

I seem to have fallen into specialising in gastric band hypnosis, and I always use the hypnotic world manual and have had some henomenal results...weight losses of between 5 and 12lb in the first week are normal, with some having a steady 1-2lb a week losses. All have been delighted, but I have one client who has been a nightmare. Her first words to me when she came through the door were I hope Im not wasting my money with this. I had along talk with her and told he to go away and have a good long think about whether she really wanted this etc as she seeme dunmotivated. However, she was adamant she believed in it and I had been recommended to her by one of her friends. But from the word go she just would not engage - she is an indian lady and was terrified she would have to give up her indian food...I told her she wouldnt have to give up anything but would need to make some lifestyle changes and take responsibility and that hypnosis is a tool and not a magic wand. She agreed with all of this, but wouldnt even make eye contact. She would arrive at sessions having eaten a bag of onion rings, and would cook curry with TWO LADLES of oil, and would snack on onion bhajis etc, all fatty fried foods. At session 3 I got really much harder with her, pointed out that she would kill herself if she carried on, and that she was only a couple of points off being morbidly obese, had increased risk of cancer, diabetes etc etc...all she would do was make this humming noise in agreement. She complained that she joined a gym 3 months ago and hadnt lost weight...I asked how many time she had been and she said 3 in the 3 months. Now she has called me a week after session 4 (the gastric band procedure) and said she has only lost one pound, is really cross, has followed everything Ive said, stuck to the post surgery dietary advice note...she says she only had liquids for 2 days, and then soft foods...used no oils in cooking. I said she would have lost weight had she stuck to that and she said no, shes hardly eaten anything. Then she said that she was so angry that she had eaten 3 slices of pizza!!! I am having her back in for a chat but I think this is one that cant be helped. Any ideas/comments?

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Date Oct 14th, 2011 02:33 Re: Client not engaging

Sorry...I worded that wrong when I said I told her she wouldnt have to give up anything...I explained to her that this was not a diet, that it was a lifelong change, and that I wouldnt be telling her she couldnt eat anything specific...rather that she would find it easier to make healthier choices. But that she WOULD have to make some changes, i.e in the method of cooking etc.

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Mairead
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Location: Manchester, GB
Date Oct 14th, 2011 04:41 Re: Client not engaging

The most important thing about any change is that the client has to be willing to make changes! You no doubt have heard the old saying - that if you continue to do what you have always done ......you will always get what you have got. This I think needs to be pointed out to your client very strongly. She does not have to give up Indian cooking but she does need to change how she prepares it and the type of food she eats (as you said eating fried food for snacks isnt going to help her loose weight!) Also it sounds as though your client may have a fear of failure - so perhaps tackle that belief? It may not be the system that she doubts but herself. Perhaps consider parts intregration - part of her wants to change and loose weight and the part that doesnt want to change and remain overweight. You cant win them all - so ease up on yourself! Good luck

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Date Oct 14th, 2011 06:44 Re: Client not engaging

Hi and thanks for your reply. I think she IS scared of failure, but would not admit that nor take kindly to me suggesting it. Believe me I have spent a lot of time with this lady talking through the various causes...I asked if there were any situations in her life which may be making things difficult for her, and difficult relationships...she was very cross that I was suggesting that perhaps her marriage was unhappy (I didnt even mention her husband although she had previously told me her husband made her feel like a failure). I tackled possible protection weight...she wouldnt even listen to it. I asked if she had ever suffered from depression and she tutted and said she had never taken anti depressants...I gently explained that you dont have to be diagnosed to be depressed and she said she is a very happy person...shes really not, she is in fact very down and moves like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders. Im an experienced therapist, I have been in practice for 9 years now so its not inexperience or a lack of confidence on my part. This lady is just an inpenetrable wall. I have just called her to book her in for a chat next week and she sighed her way through the conversation, and ended with well I will try and work around that time I suppose.

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Faith
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Location: South Yorkshire, GB
Date Oct 14th, 2011 09:39 Re: Client not engaging

Hi Aly Frustrating as it is I think we just have to accept that we cant help people who dont want to be helped. As long as her mind is closed youre going to have a very difficult job on your hands helping her with any issues. You didnt mention how she responds to the hypnotherapy sessions. Does she relax well and is she able to visualize or do you get the impression that shes just going along with it?

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Date Oct 14th, 2011 10:25 Re: Client not engaging

Hi Faith, she seems to relax ok but I think she is just mistrustful of the whole thing and, as you say, is just going along with it. The problem I have is that she insists she wants help, but I really dont think she does. Shes quite arrogant in her manner and I think thats what is getting in the way.

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Ang
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Location: Pembrokeshire, GB
Date Oct 15th, 2011 12:50 Re: Client not engaging

I also seem to have fallen into gastric band speciality and have had really good results - following the manual but also adding other scripts on the 2nd and 3rd session to tailor to their individual problems. Lately however I am not getting so many successes - some clients have fallen asleep during sessions so I have given an extra one free of charge. I feel now that I am stressing to clients on the first consultation that it is not magic and they must help themselves, which perhaps is coming over as the therapy is not as good as the ad makes out. Many people are impressed with results that they have witnessed and automatically seem to think that they are going to get the same results and are very disappointed when they do not. Any ideas.

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Aly
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Date Oct 15th, 2011 06:22 Re: Client not engaging

Hi Ang, I have also had clients fall asleep but it doesnt seem to make any difference to the results...some of those have been remarkably responsive and continued to lose weight. I think maybe the trick is to not over emphasise the fact that they have to still work at it, but rather explain that hypnotherapy is a partnership...the therapist hands the client the tools and the client has to make the decision to use them? This one client I have who I posted about above does expect magic, and no matter how I explained it she was not going to take responsibility for her eating habits. Im just not sure how to proceed from here with her.

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Location: Pembrokeshire, GB
Date Oct 15th, 2011 09:48 Re: Client not engaging

Hi Aly What is you success rate? Are you following the manual rigidly. I wonder whether by adding extra scripts to session 2 and 3 (motivation to exercise etc) I may be overloading the session.

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Aly
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Date Oct 16th, 2011 07:49 Re: Client not engaging

Im not sure of the success rate Ang as Ive not been doing it long, but I have seen about 20 clients and only one has complained. I have yet to see them for their 8 week check up, thats coming up shortly but short term (following sessions 1 - 3) there have been some great results but wont know until the follow ups start. I do stick to the scripts pretty much, but obviously tweak them for each client but that is just adding a couple of client specific suggestions rather than extra scripts as I do feel anything longer than about 20-30 minutes is too much in one go. At least that has been the case in my experience. Aly

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Gouri
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Location: Lancashire, GB
Date Oct 17th, 2011 01:31 Re: Client not engaging

I have only had a couple of gastric band clients, but my from my experience, I feel it is very important to work on emotional release and motivation and also parts therapy, for at least one or two sessions and to ensure that these have been succesful before even doing the gastric band session. in terms of the indian lady, it would have been benefical to do some strong motivational work and work on changing diet before the gastric band session- the gastric band session only reduces the amounts of food eaten, but it does not change the types of food eaten and it will not work if the client has not already started taking positive consistent steps towards having a healthy life style.

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Location: Pembrokeshire, GB
Date Oct 18th, 2011 02:20 Re: Client not engaging

I only ask them to come back for a tweaking if they feel they need it but keep track on most of my clients on facebook. What exactly is parts therapy Gouri.

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Gouri
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Location: Lancashire, GB
Date Oct 18th, 2011 06:26 Re: Client not engaging

Parts Therapy is finding the reason for the overeating/eating wrong foods behaviour by accessing the part" of the clients mind that instigates this behaviour in order to benefit the client in some way. So we talk to the part and find out what its positive intention is (eg. to ease boredom) and ask the part to find an alternative (healthy) way to satisfy this intention (reading a book).There is more info in the book "scripts and stategies in Hypnotherapy" by Roger P Allen

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Stella Hutson
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Location: West Yorkshire, UK
Date Oct 18th, 2011 08:38 Re: Client not engaging

Yes, Parts Therapy is definitely a good idea!

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Member
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Location: Pembrokeshire, GB
Date Oct 18th, 2011 08:59 Re: Client not engaging

Thanks Gouri. Book on its way from Amazon. On another matter I have a client coming this week to help her sleep because of her husbands snoring. There is one script on the site but seems a bit weak" to me. Anyone any ideas.

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Dave Newman
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Location: Essex, GB
Date Oct 19th, 2011 12:49 Re: Client not engaging

Im surprised that you try to negotiate with your client at a conscious level. She is already aware of all the dangers to her health, as are smokers, alcoholics, or any of the too much behaviours. You say the client is not engaging yet she came to see you, she wants your help, shes paying your fee, how much cooperation do you want. You are expecting her to take conscious control of an unconscious act. I doubt that she has experienced hypnosis yet, as she talks about doing everything that you said. The changes should be taking place at a subconscious level. The best thing you can do for your client, and in her best interest, is to refer her to someone else. Dave

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Dave Newman
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Location: Essex, GB
Date Oct 19th, 2011 12:56 Re: Client not engaging

You need to see her husband, shes not having trouble sleeping - her husbands keeping her awake with HIS snoring. Dave

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Paul Allenby
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Date Oct 19th, 2011 03:16 Re: Client not engaging

It amazes me how I see some therapists on this site asking how to do their job! Clients come to us for us to help them and any professional therapist should be equipped to hekp them I am, as always deeply concerned when someone asks in this instance,whats parts therapy"! In order for anyone to call themselves a hypnotherapist they should be adequately trained to be an effective therapist and not merely a script reader. Sorry if this offends, but in reality, there are too many ill trained people out there offering inadequate services to clients who do not know the difference between a therapist and a script reader.

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Stephen Scott
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Location: London, United Kingdon
Date Oct 19th, 2011 06:49 Re: Client not engaging

Hypnosis does not work if you dont have unconscious rapport with the client first! Those where the words of Dr. Milton Erickson.

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Date Oct 19th, 2011 06:54 Re: Client not engaging

Paul...so you have 100% success rate then?

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Date Oct 19th, 2011 06:57 Re: Client not engaging

Any client must surely need to take some responsibility otherwise we would be magicians! This lady has been to the gym 3 times in 3 months but cannot understand why she has not lost weight. I have caledher back in for a chat and she has just cancelled that, cannot find the time...I am a damn good therapist with many years experience, but I am not a miracle worker and yes...I do find it offensive to be referred to as ill trained, or a script reader.

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Aly
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Date Oct 19th, 2011 08:41 Re: Client not engaging

And also, are you saying that the hypnotic world gastric band manual is wrong? After all that does suggest that at session 3 you get tougher with the client and discuss the health implications of their eating habits.

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Location: Pembrokeshire, GB
Date Oct 19th, 2011 09:40 Re: Client not engaging

Dave her husband does not have a problem sleeping, she does as he keeps her awake. And I am a qualified hypnotherapist Paul and not a script reader but in some instances we all have a new challenge ie something we have not come across before and that is the whole point of having this forum.

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Dave
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Location: Essex, GB
Date Oct 19th, 2011 12:02 Re: Client not engaging

The point I make is that its the problem that her partner has that keeps her awake, addressing that problem would resolve hers. She could just wear ear plugs. Or find a new partner. Perhaps the best way to help her would be working on her assertiveness, or perhaps you could teach her to hallucinate her partners snore as a purr or a whisper. Dave

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Member
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Location: Pembrokeshire, GB
Date Oct 20th, 2011 01:23 Re: Client not engaging

Dave at the moment they are sleeping in separate bedrooms. I am seeing her this evening for the first time and will put your idea of a purr or whisper or some other such sound to her - thanks. I thought the whole point of the forum is to help each other and not slate each other off. I do wonder why some people subscribe if they do not use the scripts. I used to spend hours writing scripts/notes before seeing clients and then discovered this website - a god send.

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Lin Debenham
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Location: Derbyshire, GB
Date Nov 19th, 2011 02:15 Client not engaging

I also take exception to Pauls comments. As a properly trained therapist myself I work exceedingly hard to help my clients but I appreciate and value the input from colleagues and see this forum as a valuable tool in aiding my clients and doing a better job. I would see myself as a poor therapist if I was so arrogant to believe that I had the answers to everyones needs - therapists are human too. This forum is about supporting and helping each other and not slagging each other off. All I can say is that the air must be very rarified in Pauls ivory tower. Maybe one day he will find a situation with a client where he needs input from colleagues. I look forward to that day.

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Stephen Dransfield
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Location: Lincolnshire, GB
Date Jan 14th, 2012 10:46 Re: Client not engaging

I have done lots of gastric bands, I do a course of 5 one hour sessions and use parts therapy on session 2 & 3. On session 2 they get the part that is making them overeat and mentally ask it why and no matter what it says, they tell it that its behaviour is not acceptable and they negotiate a new way for it to behave that will help them to lose weight.On session 3, we get the part that is sabotaging them and get that part to change. I would recommend parts to any therapist, its very adaptable and often amazes the client. I firmly believe that these forums should be for the benefit of us all, none of us are so good that we cannot learn from others. Im happy to help anyone who contacts me, the more people that are helped by hypnotherapy the better our jobs become.

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Kelly
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Date Jan 15th, 2012 11:04 Re: Client not engaging

I have to say, I totally agree with the majority here, this site is packed full of handy hints, script and valuable opinions from fellow members in the profession. No one is so gifted they cannot learn from the experiences of others. I wonder why Paul would sign up to such a site .... I will continue to enjoy the benefits of taking others peoples advice and experiences on board, and sharing my own. Thank you to all who dont mind helping others to provide the best possible service they can. good luck with both clients .. I dont think getting earplugs or a new partner due to someones husband snoring is the answer Dave, I agree that maybe you could incorporate the noises keeping her awake into something soothing and positive.

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Tracy, Clinical Hypnotherapist, Newport, Shropshire
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Location: Shropshire, GB
Date Jan 16th, 2012 07:05 Re: Client not engaging

If I have a client that gives no eye contact, doesn’t mirror my body language, I will do suggestibility tests to check whether they will find Hypnotherapy is the best method for them. I have only had one client similar that said on arrival that everyone in her family said that she wont do it and it wont work, so she had already given up before she had started. I decided to charge her a consultation fee which covered the room and my time and if she wanted to go ahead, the remaining amount would be payable on the second session. I now use this to all clients especially when theyve not had hypnosis and its a program that is very effective, but its not 100%. I Bought this manual this time last year and so far its been 95% effective. I have used some of the info to print out a leaflet and manual for the clients to take away with them. I have weight, height and blood pressure charts and work out their BMI. I found the first script to be spot on for most, but for Analytical/Auditory types, I do a rapid induction with deep relaxation. On the second reinforcement session, I adjust to whatever, if at all, they need more motivation for exercise or for cutting out certain foods. Most have reached the stage where they have cut out junk, not buying it off the shelves and are exercising more. If I havent reached this stage, I repeat the reinforcement or deal with any blockages such as stress. I give the client recordings according to their learning type for stress, relaxation or if they cant sleep to use as and when they feel the need. Once the stomach shrinking session has been completed, the client will feel their stomach actually pulling in and shrinking. I check when coming out from Surgery session that it worked by asking them to press on the plaster and usually they find that they feel a bruise there. Most have returned 8 weeks after for band adjustment, but not all. The most successful client has lost 10 stone since last May and he has brought me many clients as a result. I have not advertised anywhere other than the clinic window and leaflets and the diary has been full. I hope thats of use to anyone.

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Sue
Member
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Location: Nottinghamshire, GB
Date Jan 16th, 2012 01:17 Re: Client not engaging

You say she was angry who was she angry with you or herself? if she is angry with herself I would start probing until you get something you can work with. The problem could also be a cultural one have you checked this out? Be interested to find out what happens Good Luck

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